Sarah Palin - Off-Topic Discussions

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Eddy186

Since 1163 Days

2008-09-30 10:51:11

capitalism --> socialism --> communsim
-->(we are here)

Republicans put us one step closer towards socialism while Democrats puts us three steps closer.

I would have to go with a little more socialism to reel back the negatives of captialism then switch back to capitalism.

Acert93

Mr. Bad Cop Since 1188 Days

2008-09-30 11:24:35 In reply to Optimusv2 (2008-09-29 21:01:48)

Posted by Optimusv2

Even when Obama wins though, he will have been handed the most screwed up situations ever. It will be hard cleaning up after George Bush.

Spin. This has been a downward cycle pretty much since the 1910's; we bought short term advancement and stability at the expense of long term health. It is essentially dominos (there is a reason why there was a gold standard and why the founding fathers were very, very concerned about the control of banks and the concept of a federal reserve and whatnot).

Congress (hey, which Obama [and McCain] is part of, and a big party line voter and little shaker at best) has as much, if not more, to say about how the country is run. Partisan politics, while both Reps and Dems have been in power has been a major, major issue. Just look how the Dems completely back tracked on their campaign promises from the last election! Both parties suck, party affiliation sucks. They are the vortex where ideas and good intent dies for party lines and political chess playing for personal gain and advancement.

For the record, the JibJab video is hillarious where Obama sings about change... what kind of change? Well change of course! His meager voting record paints a different picture. Not that I am for McCain ... those who label him another Bush obviously don't follow politics closely and are spoon fed by the media (surprise surprise!) McCain is a big government Repub, all for social meddling (a mish mash) with strong big business leanings. His idea of governmental reform are a joke (poke a finger in a bursting damn ftw!). But he has a track record, one often at odds with Bush at that.

Posted by Grift

I agree, for the most part. Real progressive politicians on either side of the isle are shunned and pushed aside, and worse, labeled as kooks and morons by their peers and the media. The two best examples: Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul. Obama is a sparkle in the eye of the media, and he's the parties golden child because of how they're able to present him.

Exactly the folks I had in mind in my original post. Paul got screwed during the debates (which he kept on winning and then got cut out of... a travesty). He is far more represenative of conservatives, namely the Constitutional movement. I don't agree with Paul on everything, but he has the right general idea in regards to government. But the parties want NOTHING to do with Kucinich or Paul because they are NOT beholden to lobbyists and big business (which both are, just different types) and both try to bind themselves to the limitations that the Constitution puts on them.

I could care less if Obama was a Constitutional Professor--it doesn't mean crap if he doesn't use his authority properly. There are a lot of smart people who are scum bag politicians who feel it is their duty to tell people how to live, set social norms, and redisperse wealth from those who work and earn it to those who do not. The sense of entitlement by big government is sickening, is self enforcing by the impact it has on voters, and diminishes the effectiveness of local governments which are much more in tune with addressing issues in cost effective manners.

Of course, as much as I thought the 700B bailout was a joke, the ones who have been paying for the mess are those who have been fiscally responsible (the devaluation of the dollar has been a killer on our meager savings as well as raising our monthly bills for basic essentials) and now tax payers. But it goes back to entitlement and how we run business these days. Home owners want more than they can afford and were absolutely irresponsible (no equity, living pay check to pay check, never considered significant down turns in the economy or housing market, bailing out of upside down mortgages and allowing the government safety nets to absolve their losses in the medium term) and banks are more than happy to participate and shift the losses to unsuspecting investors and US tax payers. Of course our government is more than happy to ignore these issues until it is too late and is willing to fiddle away tax payers hard earned money on poorly executed world policing and illegal immigrates exhausting services funded by tax payers (kind of a joke: we want to police the boarders across the globe but cannot do it at home because of the same old problem: we don't need new laws, just to enforce the ones we have ... but it is to no ones benefit, except tax payers, so there is no remedy because votes are on the line).

Anyhow, I hope the Obama presidency goes better than the last couple years. If anything the market will be prime for an upswing here in the next couple years after market adjustment takes hold (re: it was within the last 2 years the stock market hit 14k points). But then again US industry is really hurting on the corporate and employee front and the solution isn't really one a politician can resolve.

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I am watching YOU.

Viginti_Tres

Since 719 Days

2008-09-30 19:25:26

No matter what you might think of the bailout, the damage is done and irreversible. You can't just go on and say: "Hey, that was their responseability, so they have to eat it up." If the gov. would follow that principle it'd lead into a deep crisis. So in the end, no matter which solution is found (or no solution is found). In the end the tax payer has to eat it up. In the end you have two choices: Pay now and start fresh or pay later (and over a few years time) and live on.

Acert hit a very important point: A lot of taxpayers were also responsible for this dillema. They took credit when they were not credit worthy, being greedy and loving money. Part of the responseablity has the goverment that didn't enforce bank law (like it is here in the EU, a crisis is less likely to happen), the other part were the institutes who gave away credits to buy things with little value, and who burrowed money from other banks (which ultimately lead to the crisis).

Going back to the two ways you can possibly take: The hard way would be doing nothing and let the banks die. The market will regulate itself automaticaly and after 10 years we may have a strong economy again. This has the big expense that everyone, including other countries who are relyant on the US, will get a big hit in its economy. The upside is that there are a lot of oppertuneties (economical and political) to take, but only by those clever enough.

The other route would be stretching the debt for 20-30 years and pay it up (what the bailout basicaly is). The risk is that the state doesn't draw consequences and starts regulating the market more (here in Germany we call it "social market economy", look it up on wikipedia).

GriftGFX

He can also
ban your ass! GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!

Since 1217 Days

2008-09-30 20:04:37

http://www.flickr.com/photos/matthewkendig/2892037...

Optimusv2

Since 1109 Days

2008-09-30 21:05:16

Well Acert don't forget that bush was vetoing a lot of things the dems tried to do left and right, but they've still showcased on many an occasion that they don't really have much of a backbone either. :)

When Obama talks about change he may not have as big a record as some others obviously, but when he talks change he does have a record that backs up what he says.

Don't forget the Gift Ban Act he passed at the state level when he was in the Illinois state legislature. It was perfectly legal for politicians to get paid off by special interests when he was in the illinois legislature and he took it upon himself to help get rid of such a practice. That looks like change to me. He is also the person that pushed through law to force police officers in illinois to record interrogations to make sure they weren't crossing the line.

Obama is also responsible for passing the strongest ethics reform bill in a long time at the federal level with the Lobbying and Ethics Reform Act.

http://feingold.senate.gov/~feingold/issues_ethics...

Obama also wrote, don't remember the name of it, some legislation to protect voters from deceptive practices and intimidation and another to make it easier for voters to gain access to polling places. For as much as McCain tries to discredit Obama's record as a do nothing, you would think such things get mentioned.

Obama, while working with a republican is the one that helped to champion a piece of legislation that would make every earmark, loan and contract public knowledge for everyone to see. You would see who made the request, who received it, what it was for etc.

http://www.usaspending.gov/ <-- Obama had a significant role in the creation of this website. It's actually what McCain's running mate sarah palin has promised that she would make happen when she becomes Vice President of the United States of America. Wonder if anyone has told her that Obama has already done it.

Obama also intends to expand it even further to make it more all encompassing as President.

McCain isn't a by the book bush copy, but he has clearly backed bush on more than enough things to be accurately depicted as a candidate that will, in essence, represent very little change of direction from what George Bush has represented the last 8 years. McCain even intends to make the George Bush tax cuts, that he once opposed on very valid grounds, permanent. If anything, it's perfectly reasonable to believe that a McCain presidency would be even worse than a Bush presidency.

His age and health is absolutely an issue, but more so when you consider the fact that his running mate is embarrassingly unfit for the job. McCain is the person that has voted against women getting equal pay for equal work, McCain is a guy that has voted against raising the minimum wage time after time after time, McCain has showcased that he would abandon the very principles for which he has stood by all in an effort to become president.

When he said that he would oppose his very own immigration bill, I had seen all I needed to see.

With all the nonsense that has been allowed to take place within our economy and how much de-regulation contributed to it, and mccain being in every way a strong proponent of deregulation along with the savings and loans keating 5 scandal on his record, he is not the kind of person i want to see make an attempt to fix our economy. The man, without shame, openly showcases the very lobbyists that will be working against our interests before he has even become our president.

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Hironobu Sakaguchi is coming back to reclaim the throne :)

Seeing it in motion on your HDTV, will blow your mind!!

Don't ask any questions just shut up and buy Halo : Ghosts of the Onyx one of the greatest books ever.

pssh! more like electronic g

PlumbDrumb

Still drinking PlumbDrumb - Still drinking

Since 1210 Days

2008-09-30 21:20:16

I honestly don't care about a man's record at the moment.

It may have been said before, but our President has been in office for almost 8 years and he still sucks butt fungus.

Optimusv2

Since 1109 Days

2008-09-30 21:29:35

Truer words have never been spoken :)

LEBATO

IS WRONG LEBATO - IS WRONG

Since 1339 Days

2008-10-01 02:44:36

Acert hit a very important point: A lot of taxpayers were also responsible for this dillema. They took credit when they were not credit worthy, being greedy and loving money. Part of the responseablity has the goverment that didn't enforce bank law (like it is here in the EU, a crisis is less likely to happen), the other part were the institutes who gave away credits to buy things with little value, and who burrowed money from other banks (which ultimately lead to the crisis).

I don't agree, in fact, I don't even think it comes down to agreeing. The way I see it/is, the banks should not have given loans to people they perfectly KNEW couldn't pay.

Many of these people just thought it as an opportunity, and most of the times it was to buy a home, if anything it was ignorance/bad planning on their part. The greedy part goes to the banks.

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Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

GriftGFX

He can also
ban your ass! GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!

Since 1217 Days

2008-10-01 03:01:10

That's not even the most dramatic part of this issue anyway. Banks selling (and re-selling!) assets they knew were bad in the first place is! The original bailout proposal would have literally GIVEN a completely random (and enormous) amount of money to the same people who quite directly used their influence to pad their own pockets and created this problem, and it would do so with practically no oversight!

A lot of money, to very few people, without asking why.. or how. That's not cool.

You shouldn't assume that it's the little guys fault, because, even if it were true (and for the most part, it's not) it's still the banks fault for distributing that credit in the first place. They caused this bubble, by buying and selling so-called toxic assets. They knew what they were doing, but it was making the bosses richer and fatter so they didn't care!

And Wall Street was already looking for ways to profit from the bail out this week. Financial firms are now lobbying to have all manners of risky investments covered, not just those related to mortgages. Rudy Giuliani is lobbying to have his own firm hired as consultants to oversee the bailout. Make no mistake, there are crooks with their hands reaching for this proverbial (and literal) pot of gold.

I'm glad the house voted this bullshit down. We'll need to come to an agreement soon, but hopefully it will be a much more reasonable as a result. This proposal would have only made rich men richer, and would at best have postponed the crash that we're looking at.

Fire the "Federal" Reserve!

Optimusv2

Since 1109 Days

2008-10-01 03:28:34

There is an article that really hits the nail on the head as to what caused all of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRkWebP2Q0Y

New Sarah Palin video where she can't even list a single newspaper that she has read.

This picture of couric sums it up.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/21/9322/7...

This is the article that goes really in depth about the crisis we now find ourselves in. Long story short, a major architect of this entire thing is McCain's economic guru for his campaign.

A small excerpt

How big did this market become? Here's business correspondent Bob Moon and host Kai Ryssdal on American Public Media's Marketplace from back in the spring.

BOB MOON: OK, I'm about to unload some numbers on you here, so I'll speak slowly so you can follow this.

The value of the entire U.S. Treasuries market: $4.5 trillion.

The value of the entire mortgage market: $7 trillion.

The size of the U.S. stock market: $22 trillion.

OK, you ready?

The size of the credit default swap market last year: $45 trillion.

KAI RYSSDAL: That's a lot of money, Bob.

As in three times the whole US gross domestic product, Bob. And the truth is that Moon probably underestimated. The unregulated and poorly reported credit default swaps may have actually passed $70 trillion last year, or about $5 trillion more than the GDP of the entire world.

So, are you starting to get an idea of just how big a genie Phil Gramm and his pals unleashed?

LEBATO

IS WRONG LEBATO - IS WRONG

Since 1339 Days

2008-10-01 03:35:39

I hope you get it.

Now thanks for linking to that video.....she's just embarrassing. Wow man. And like they say, McCain is about to die--we all know that :P--so that woman could potentially be a President?

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Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

Optimusv2

Since 1109 Days

2008-10-01 03:57:08

Lebato have you seen this one?

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=EqITmC8fPS8&NR=1

And... another one from the Katie Couric interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CohwuiyhyWA

She says Homosexuality is a choice. I guess people look at it differently, but a lot of people don't view it as a choice.

Tinks

Since 1146 Days

2008-10-01 04:09:25

I like how of all the places I've seen a discussion (I have started or someone else has), this forum has resulted in much more of an intelligent response
People on a gaming forum are more informed than most other places (at least that I visit)
Maybe it's just the state we're in that all these people are informed, but it would seem gamers are grossly underestimated (including by myself). This is all pretty unexpected. People are probably older than I assume here though, which is another factor

Optimusv2

Since 1109 Days

2008-10-01 05:22:03

I'm 24. Yea, people on here seem to be pretty well informed on most things.

I've yet to really find a topic that someone on this forum isn't fairly knowledgeable about. Gamers are definitely underestimated. In between chainsawing people, jacking cars and running people through with swords in the gaming world, we'll occasionally river dance, tap dance, attend an opera and follow politics.

LEBATO

IS WRONG LEBATO - IS WRONG

Since 1339 Days

2008-10-01 05:58:45

Optimus, you just keep posting those ridiculous links!

I'm more amazed at such stupidity than ever. Also on the homosexuality thing, well that is her view, and there is much debate in that, but what surprises me is her response of "my friend(s) is gay".......that shows a very limited level of thought.

I was in a job interview not too long ago and one of the things they asked me was more or less about my experience in a diverse environments (race, religion, economic, etc) etc. If you go there and say "I have black friends....." and similar comments for the other areas it is going to make you look DUMB!

A nice lady who is very knowledgeable about job interviews (I mean it--pretty much everyone she "coaches" gets the job) taught me this among other things. I never had it in my mind, but just to make a long story short, those comments are at best unprofessional.

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Mods, stop changing my SIG! I'm going to end up banning you!

GriftGFX

He can also
ban your ass! GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!

Since 1217 Days

2008-10-01 08:39:17

lol--I just watched that video re:newspapers. Holy shit.

PlumbDrumb

Still drinking PlumbDrumb - Still drinking

Since 1210 Days

2008-10-01 09:08:43 In reply to Optimusv2 (2008-10-01 05:22:03)

Posted by Optimusv2

In between chainsawing people, jacking cars and running people through with swords in the gaming world, we'll occasionally river dance, tap dance, attend an opera and follow politics.

Because women force us to!

GriftGFX

He can also
ban your ass! GriftGFX - He can also<br>ban your ass!

Since 1217 Days

2008-10-01 12:44:18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4AvbYUu1Mg

..not that the bailout proposal would be much better with said restrictions.

PlumbDrumb

Still drinking PlumbDrumb - Still drinking

Since 1210 Days

2008-10-01 13:12:14

so you've gone from long boring posts, to posting links of long boring videos?

I hate this thread.

Optimusv2

Since 1109 Days

2008-10-01 19:31:10 In reply to GriftGFX (2008-10-01 08:39:17)

Posted by GriftGFX

lol--I just watched that video re:newspapers. Holy shit.

Country First man... Country First lol.

On a serious note, John McCain should be disqualified for the job of President solely based on his pick for VP. It's such a politically motivated pick, but not in a good way.

Obama picked someone with experience that helps to make his perceived weaknesses look better and will only serve to help him better govern our country.

McCain's pick is a pick that treats women as if they are sheep that will, pretty much, fall in line because he picked a woman. His pick is designed ONLY to help him win the election. It isn't designed to, in any way, help him better govern our country. If it was, he wouldn't have picked Palin. He would've picked someone more qualified. The pick of Sarah Palin is solely meant to help him win the election. It is not meant for anything else and voters should be insulted by that.

Others may have a different opinion about this than I do, but she was showcasing her youngest child, who has down syndrome, and it's clearly meant to help get votes, but she doesn't even intend to give people in this country the type of serious healthcare coverage they need to take care of kids that are in the same position as her.

She doesn't believe that sex education should be taught in our schools and then ironically she has a pregnant young daughter. That is an issue, especially if she hasn't changed her mind. As Mayor of Wasilla, victims of rape had to pay for their own rape kits and this is something she actually signed off on and approved as mayor. Alaska has the highest rape percentage in our country and victims of rape had to pay for their own rape kits?

PlumbDrumb

Still drinking PlumbDrumb - Still drinking

Since 1210 Days

2008-10-01 19:39:46 In reply to Optimusv2 (2008-10-01 19:31:10)

Posted by Optimusv2

Country First man... Country First.

fuck country. Person Self!!!

Optimusv2

Since 1109 Days

2008-10-01 20:04:28

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/01/mccain-ge...

McCain gets lost on stage.

PlumbDrumb

Still drinking PlumbDrumb - Still drinking

Since 1210 Days

2008-10-01 20:08:54

Lol! Which way do I go?

That way Senator.

Optimusv2

Since 1109 Days

2008-10-01 20:25:41

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?story...

MCCAIN: I’ve turned to her advice many times in the past, I can’t imagine turning to Senator Obama or Senator Biden because they’ve been wrong. They were wrong about Iraq, wrong about Russia –

He turns to Sarah Palin for advice? The same woman who thought being able to see Russia from Alaska gives her foreign policy experience that is sufficient enough to be our Commander in Chief? The same woman who was asked a simple question about the bailout and in her incoherent response simply spewed out a bunch of talking points and in doing so showcased she didn't even have enough common sense to properly understand the question? The same woman that couldn't name a single newspaper she has read?

What's more, Sarah Palin is a Journalism Major. A Journalism Major and couldn't list a single newspaper :)

Think about that one for a sec.

PlumbDrumb

Still drinking PlumbDrumb - Still drinking

Since 1210 Days

2008-10-01 20:27:06

Okay that time you just typed too much.

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