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Hot stuff!
Since 1047 Days
2007-01-10 03:01:47 In reply to LEBATO (2007-01-10 02:04:22)
However many months old that build is, it's surprising to me how they don't even bother to make new models. That gun, in terms of detail looks exactly the same. Basicallly I'm just very surprised at how far behind the graphics are, I really wonder if I'll finish the fight in 2007.
Is it logical, that they would build a completely new model for the chief (the single most important model in the game) but not touch one for a weapon the player will likely spend a fair bit of time looking at in game?
The footage is several months old at the point of making the videodoc. I.e. they did not whip this up from stuff recorded in December. According to Bungie, some of this stuff is was recorded nearer to E3 than December, when it was made.
Speaking of which, lets think about the development of Halo 3 for a second.
Bungie have created a new engine, from scratch. During this period of development, no artist apart from the concept artists can really do jack, especially anything with graphics/models/textures that will be in the game . This isn't like UE3 where they can be on board from day 1 getting assets ready.
Building an engine from scratch takes a LONG time. Especially on unfamiliar hardware.
Creating assets for next-gen games is the biggest challenge facing any developer this time around. Everybody is struggling with this. Not just because of the sheer amount of work required, but getting to grips with new tools/engines at the same time.
The E3 demo will have taken months of work to get up to that quality. Hence pretty much after getting an engine up and running, everybody is working on assets for E3. Nothing else. This is hard, as Silicon Knights will no doubt testify.
With engine up, gameplay elements such as level designs, physics, AI, encounters need to be fleshed out. What's better to use in this situation. NO textures until final ones are done? Or have some placeholder stuff in there to help everybody else do their job. Still yet more stuff to do before our plucky artists are working on final graphics.
Now, I'm making a lot of assumptions there about a lot of things, but that is no worse than looking at the SMG in that picture and assuming that will be how it looks when the game ships. To be surprised at just "how far behind the graphics are" is to not pay any attention to the reality of making games this generation, especially on a custom engine.
Forgive my exasperation, I am somewhat tired. Please continue to bash games in your customary fashion, I enjoy reading it and some people can do with a reality check but drawing any conclusions regarding specifics from this stuff doesn't say anything. I've seen games weeks from shipping with amounts of placeholder stuff you would be shocked at. It's called crunch for a reason ;)
He can also
ban your ass!
Since 1179 Days
2007-01-10 03:18:47
Well, I think it's fair to say we haven't seen anything truely impressive in a technical sense out of Halo 3. And I think Lebato was talking about the SMG model..which does look almost identicle. I don't doubt Halo 3 will look better than Halo 2 PC, it better.
Hot stuff!
Since 1047 Days
2007-01-10 03:39:59 In reply to GriftGFX (2007-01-10 03:18:47)
Lebato is saying; "Wow, Halo 3 is teh suck, they didn't even make new models. The SMG in Halo 3 will be the same model as the one in Halo 2"
Like thats representative of a finished or near finished product, which I don't think is quite so reasonable given that it is likely that shot is from a build dated more than 12 months from release. If it was 12 - 18 weeks, it would be different.
* According to those Bungle guys anway :)
IS WRONG
Since 1301 Days
2007-01-10 03:41:46
I never said that's the model they'll use for the final game, and like I said, it's simply surprising that for a 2007 game they still haven't touched on the graphics. Check Crysis.......they are not using FarCry crap for any showing of the game and that's most likely a 2008 game. CryTek also made a new engine from scratch, so that excuse just doesn't work. You can not tell me it wasn't hard for them to make their game DX10 and DX9 compliant....and I'm sure you have checked the graphics right? PGR3 always looked fine and consistent from first showing to release. Lost Planet, Dead Rising, BioShock, Crackdown and the list goes on. And although not a new engine, Mass Effect has always looked amazing.
You assumed I assumed it would look like that, not the case here. I do assume Bungie are leaving graphics for last though, and if Halo 2 is any indication that's their way of working and I don't like it--it was a mess last time, and I'm just hoping we don't get the same situation. Sure, the game looked good, but not like the first couple of trailers.
So I'm sure it'll look much better, but I'm starting to think the Halo 3 trailer, although real time and whatever can simply be considered a tech demo and nothing else. It is as if they decided to work on a trailer and then work on the real game.
"Let's show what the 360 can do real time and make it Halo related"
then
"Ok, let's start working on Halo 3 (or keep on working) and let's add what's possible from the trailer and mange to keep it above 30fps during gameplay"
We know real-time is not gameplay, it's just real time. That trailer had no physics, AI, and whatever else there needs to be running.
I think they need to get in crunch mode already, or show us some new stuff to prove me wrong!
---
Where the crap is Shenmue 3 SEGA? Scrap that thing called Shenmue online and finish the Shenmue epic story on 360!
He can also
ban your ass!
Since 1179 Days
2007-01-10 03:50:21 In reply to LEBATO (2007-01-10 03:41:46)
First impressions, valid or not, make a big difference.
Hot stuff!
Since 1047 Days
2007-01-10 03:55:47 In reply to LEBATO (2007-01-10 03:41:46)
You assumed I assumed it would look like that, not the case here. I do assume Bungie are leaving graphics for last though, and if Halo 2 is any indication that's their way of working and I don't like it--it was a mess last time, and I'm just hoping we don't get the same situation. Sure, the game looked good, but not like the first couple of trailers.
So I'm sure it'll look much better, but I'm starting to think the Halo 3 trailer, although real time and whatever can simply be considered a tech demo and nothing else. It is as if they decided to work on a trailer and then work on the real game.
"Let's show what the 360 can do real time and make it Halo related"
then
"Ok, let's start working on Halo 3 (or keep on working) and let's add what's possible from the trailer and mange to keep it above 30fps during gameplay"
We know real-time is not gameplay, it's just real time. That trailer had no physics, AI, and whatever else there needs to be running.
I think they need to get in crunch mode already, or show us some new stuff!
Out of all the games you mention, none of them have decided to show stuff from early in development like Bungie did. Everything you've seen from Crysis to Bioshock to Mass Effect is either a polished tech demo, or footage shown specifically to demonstrate what the final game might look like.
The vidoc is neither of those things. It's a video aimed at Bungie/Halo fans to illustrate how they're developing the Brutes in Halo 3. Crytek will have builds of their game where they were running around with placeholder weapons and the like, they just didn't make a documentary out of it and show everyone.
Hence you are comparing two different things and/or not looking at stuff in the vidoc for what it is. Not liking that strategy or how Bungie develops/shows off their games is absolutely a fair comment, but a different point!
Hot stuff!
Since 1047 Days
2007-01-10 04:05:33 In reply to GriftGFX (2007-01-10 03:50:21)
First impressions, valid or not, make a big difference.
Same goes for the beta. That should give everyone an idea of what the quality will be like. They've 3 maps to tart up and light properly. Vehicles, weapons and effects. It's not the most important part of the beta (that's the netcode, lobby, matchmaking, weapon/map balancing) but an important part of things none the less. Placeholder stuff won't wash then. You can quote me on that if I change my tune nearer the time!
Mr. Bad Cop Since 1150 Days
2007-01-10 07:12:56 In reply to deftangel (2007-01-10 00:55:08)
I understand you felt let down by Halo 2 and don't necessarily buy in to the fact that the Halo 3 build above is months old, even now, but that comparison is ridiculous.
---
Optimusv2 said: "Gun for the 360 has better graphics than both Halo 3 and Gears of War"
Since 1173 Days
2007-01-10 07:47:33 In reply to Acert93 (2007-01-10 07:12:56)
Hot stuff!
Since 1047 Days
2007-01-10 11:38:40 In reply to Acert93 (2007-01-10 07:12:56)
Plus, Forerunner architecture is very angular by design, it's been consistent throughout the previous 2. The Convenant and human environments/locales should be a different feel.